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PitchySoldier In reply to steppe-raider [2017-01-15 20:03:51 +0000 UTC]

I understand your point about not hating the ship or the shipper, but just letting you know that I'm already conscious about it.

I like to put historical facts  in my drawings and my otps from Hetalia, the case is that people who don't actually talk to me can't see the way I see things.
Everytime I draw them or I develop their relationship with my patners or in my head I'm always like: "How would they react to this? Is this accurate to their proper reactions?" 
Like, I'm not watching them as proper countries, I'm watching THEM (POLAND AND PRUSSIA) as individuals with their feelings and own thoughts, researching about their history just made me wonder about how they grew up and became the characters we all know, of course they have their personalities we can't forget but that's just the main reason for me to ship them.

So yeah, as much the Teutonic Knights get into wars and battles with the Kingdom of Poland and as much as the Prussia Kingdom betrayed them there are some facts
that makes me wonder about their real relationship. Believing that sometimes they were friendly to each other
I know for my polish friends that the Teutonic Knights were part of the transition of "prussian people" and polish people into the catholicism, I know that poles get into a massacre around the prussian pagans who didnt wanted to get into religion (talking about Old Prussia that for me is just OUR GILBERT before getting into the Teutonic Knights) but also they had to battle in common against the pagan people, according to their data the Kingdom of Poland let them lands from time to time in exchange of services, not much but it is something! 
So as headcanon of their relationship with this pharagraph  I can only say that Felek is the kind and generous without seein the consequences type person when it was young and naive, we have to think about them as teens, in this time I think Gilbert is just thinking of getting into fights and have victories, not much more political at all.
Also according to one of Himaruya's comic Gilbert listens to his superior more than anything and asked Feliks to check if he is a boy because Teutonic Knights had their things towards women. I don't think they wanted to kill each other srsly until much later.
Also I'm talking about the beginning of the Teutonic Knights, they were attacking pagans and the Kingdom of Poland had the same duty so I think that Feliks and Gilbert were "F R I E N D S" 
A word that doesnt suit them back them but it's something.


About what you said of the Teutonic Knights yes, they were enemies, I agree with that fact, moreover because the Teutonic Knights had a bad view about Lithuania (STRONG PAGANS), as much Poland get Lithuania as an ally the more aggressive and commons the battles were according of the years of each war.
In this part I like to think that Gilbert wanted to be friends with Feliks but he hated so much Toris, i won't call that jealousy but intolerance, also Gilbert thinks he suits better being friends with Feliks than Toris, even tho Feliks would prefer Toris over him.

The Battle of Grundwald, it happened on the show and in the manga of Himaruya and I know that Poland and Lithuania won but in the manga it seems Gilbert being violent and aggressive as fuck against Feliks, even he is seems to cut his head and kill him, it's just brutal the way his hate is portrayed in a real battle, in a serious way. YES, ENEMIES AS FUCK. And one thing that always think is even when Poland and Lithuania won that battle, and they already have the resources and the power to delete the Teutonic Knights they didnt do it, so I want to think that Feliks is just not the rancorous type, he is religious af so it wouldn't be in character to think that he doesn't believe in this thing of: FORGIVENESS. But I think he really is this way, he doesn't like to have bad feelings for anyone. 

But, 20 years later, the unification of Prusia emerged again as a lil group that wanted to be indepence of the Teutonic Knights and they asked the Kingdom of Poland for help, , they tried for a long time but they didn't have the chance, Lithuania didnt want to be part of it. This is also known as Thirteen Year War or War of Cities. And it was a war of this unification of Prussia allied with the Kingdom of Poland against Teutonic Knights. This unification will be later known as the formal Prussia we know. 
They were allies during all that time and actuall y you can say that it was Poland's help the one that makes Prussia appear as a country.
As I said, Feliks is the kind - don't think about consequences type of person, he just does as he wants and I think Gilbert will be very grateful but also feeling guilty of his actions during the Battle of Grundwald. I think his problem is that POWER gets in his head and mess with him and others.

Later, the first partition of Poland, yes, I know about it, I know who were the culprits and how that happened, the same goes to the second and the third partition, moreover the second one of that treaty you were talking about that it is A BETRAYAL with all his letters huge and neon to see from affar.
But as I said Feliks always forgives, HIM, i know that would be painful for him to trust one time Prussia to end like he ended.
Moreover when Gilbert owned him his existence!! 

I can't talk much about after the third partition and WW1 times because back then Poland didn't existed (oficially speaking) but after the WW2 I can talk with more freedom, according to history books it seems that Germany incriminated Prussia of being the culprit the WW2, but we all know about this shit and I think Gilbert didn't like Hitler a bit just for his own education and believes. Even tho he went too far in war. But after the WW2, East Germany and Poland began to get along a lot and this part is kindat my favourite because they were in teh same place, the loser and the victim. 
I read a lot of fancomics talking about them in this time and they all agreed that Feliks and Gilbert get along, Gilbert with his own guilt and Feliks being the way he is, he couldn't be able to forgive Ivan (Russia) but he can forgive Gilbert and his sins. It's different because Ivan were always taking away his things, and moreover his freedom. Also, being 100 years under the communism rule wouldn't be pleasant at all. Also, Feliks knows Gilbert since the very beggining, they were neighbours after all, he is not a bad guy!!
Also when the movement Solidarity began in Poland against the communism rule, I bet my life that he inspired Gilbert a lot to break the berlin's wall! 

I know it's difficult to see this kind of relationship as healthy or whatsoever but more important for me is that Feliks always did everything with good intentions and Gilbert knows it because they grew up together, Feliks could be one of those people that can know what Gilbert is thinking without being a "FRIEND". I think that each war and betrayal from Gilbert towards Feliks are things that he feels ashamed of because Feliks didn't do anything bad to him, besides the wars or whatever but there are facts that made me question they relationship and how Gilbert grew up with that, also mostly this ship is based on history and the few things they had in the manga. I can't talk about the rest of the shippers but talking about my pov and my friend's GrreenTea pov we have reasons to think that their relationship is unique and growing since the beginning of their history in common! I think I don't have any much more to say because I explained mostly everything about this otp¿? 
If you have any questions please, contact me

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steppe-raider In reply to PitchySoldier [2017-01-16 08:49:53 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for your prompt & honest answer that you were historically aware of Prussian-Polish complicated relationships, as well as the very detailed reply & commentaries on many historical interactions between Prussia & Poland. I appreciate all that (not needs agree with all). 

I knew of the 13-Year-War, wherein Christianized Western Prussians fought together with Poles against the Teutonic Order, yet Hima always made clear that Gilbert was the Teutonic Order, not the erstwhile pagan Baltic Old Prussians nor Brandenburg. I think it to be very confusing to identify those Western Prussians Prussians with Gilbert, aka who is canonically the Teutonic Order (unless Hima retcons & re-uses the old concept of an older, bearded Teutonic Order as a separate character from Gilbert, whom he would retcon into formerly Baltic pagan Prussia who falsely claimed to be the Teutonic Order to boost his self-image of "the awesome me").

The Teutonic Order, moreover, renamed themselves/himself into the German Order and diminish[es] into a charitable order in... Austria, not East Germany. So I failed to see how East German-Polish relations ever came into the picture involving Gilbert-Feliks. By Hima's canonical identification, Gilbert is freeloading in Austria's house as of today.

Lastly, fancomics are poor reference even when writing historical fiction. To say that Gilbert (Prussia Teutonic Order?) got along with Feliks-Poland makes as much sense as saying that using fanfictions that China & Vietnam, the nation states, "got along" as older brother-younger sister despite repeated Chinese invasions, four Chinese domination periods, feudal Vietnam's subordinate status as feudal China's tributary, & many Sino-Viet wars (as recent as 1978 one), & the present-day territorial disputes between Vietnam & China. Yea, many Chinese and Vietnamese persons may get along cordially (I am of mixed Chinese-Vietnamese ancestry), but nation-states?

P.S: I do not dislike yaoi. I have no rights to forbid Rule34 parody of Hetalia, yet I still have my freedom of speech to comment on why yaoi did not approrpiately portray historical relations between personified countries.

Peace & Mutual Respect!

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PitchySoldier In reply to steppe-raider [2017-01-16 09:42:30 +0000 UTC]

I appreciate you being respectful with my pov!

Just a thing: We are talking about hmm maybe 900 years in the past, neither the countries were former properly back then, like Lithuania were a bunch of 
different pagan groups and not properly called Kingdom or something, Europe was kind of a mess back then and we are just thinking as headcanon how they were back then

I can just think about what Hima did to create Germany, like, taking a bunch of german states and put them all together. Idk man, it's difficult to think about them being STATES and not the COUNTRY. This is only to say that is complicated to actually connect the characters with history, so forgive me if my headcanons or thoughts are not really accurate like what you said Gilbert is not Brandenburg or the other. 
My reason of why I think that Gilbert were Old Prussia is because when all the Teutonic Order took place in Eastern Europe they convert them into catholicism of course, but when the Unification of Prussia took place later the Teutonic Order were erased and Prussia appeared, it wouldn't have sense if just Gilbert was the Teutonic Order and not something more because he would have disappeared like Templar Knights did in Himaruya's work! I think it has to be related somehow until Himaruya proves the opposite

About East Germany, Himaruya implied in his work that East Germany is Gilbert, even tho in history Teutonic Order renamed itself or whatsoever Gilbert (Yes, Teutonic Order, just putting his canon human names to not make a mess trying to explain myself) became Kingdom of Prussia and it is canon that later he became East Germany or DRR after WW2
About the fancomics, I was just saying that it's not only me who see them the way I explained in my previous answer, historically speaking they began to get along more than ever, you can check about it on google about Germany-Poland relationship during the Cold War and  from there to the next decades

Also I'm not shipping them for "yaoi" I'm not a fujoshi, I just like their history and I like a lot the characters as individuals, shipping them with all the history fact related just made me ship them even more but that's it
have a nice day

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steppe-raider In reply to PitchySoldier [2017-01-16 16:22:38 +0000 UTC]

So do you. I wish you productivity to make more artworks in the future.

P.S: I actually like how you portrayed Poland & Hungary together as 'girlish' besties, the closest analogy to those two countries' historical relationships (they sometimes quarreled though). Trust me, I feel a bit apprehensive about PolHun shipping with them as lovers (since they are sexless landmasses, even though they may have human "gender").

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PitchySoldier In reply to GrreenTea [2016-06-05 22:54:26 +0000 UTC]

whats wrong with his skirt  
You make cute stuff for them and then me just make them sufer huh

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GrreenTea In reply to PitchySoldier [2016-07-07 14:18:06 +0000 UTC]

nothing, it won my heart
BUT THATS CUTE TOO

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