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Athicer — Praissen
Published: 2014-05-08 20:24:43 +0000 UTC; Views: 10213; Favourites: 77; Downloads: 188
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Description
A map of Prussia according to my scenario.The language
The official languages are Prussian (Low German)(nr. 1-24), Deutch (High German)(nr. 25-38), Sorbian (nr. 13 and 34), Danish, Frisian, Polabian, Pomeranian, Kashubian, Lithuanian and Polish. The lingua france is Deutch. Since Prussia is a bilingual state, Prussian and Deutch are the lingui franca, though Deutch is also commonly used between speakers of Prussian and another language, whilst this is not often the case with speakers of Deutch, since Prussian consists of many different dialects, which are sometimes hard to comprehend amongst one another, even though standard Prussian is used as an official language in education and institutions. Nearly everyone in the country is capable of speaking at least two, often three, languages fluent, since both Standard Prussian and Deutch are considered vital subjects in school and are started to be taught to the children at early age (for instance in kindergarten it is very normal to speak Prussian with the one caretaker and to speak Deutch with the other, this way the infants pick up the language they yet have to master very quickly). For that reason, many parents also raise their children bilingually. Next to Standard Prussian and Deutch many Prussians also have their native dialect as a third language, or minorities, such as Sorbs, Frisians or Kashubians have their own languages as a third language. In areas where minority languages such as these (especially Sorbian gets a lot of attention) are frequently spoken they are also subjects in highschool, even though the lingui franca will be standard Prussian and Deutch, which are also the languages in which the education is provided. Primary school is available in all the above listed languages, even though also in predominatly Sorbian or Frisian (these are just examples) speaking areas Prussian and Deutch are taught from early ages onward (starting directly after kindergarten).
Cities and the states
Squares indicate cities with populations over half a million, big circles indicate cities with a population from 100 000 to half a million and small circles indicate cities with a population from 50 000 to 100 000. Red cities are capitals of provinces and districts. Bold city-names are capitals of districts. The biggest city is Berlien, which also happens to be the capital, with 9.4 million inhabitants. Prussia is divided up into various states, some with separate provinces.
The states are listed as follows:
1. Oostfriesland (Werserland)
2. Bremerland (Werserland)
3. Sleswiek (Sleswiek-Holstien)
4. Holstien (Sleswiek-Holstien)
5. Nederwestfalen (Westfalen)
6. Hoogwestfalen (Westfalen)
7. Rhienland (Westfalen)
8. Brunswiek (Nedersaksen)
9. Oanhalt (Nedersaksen)
10. Elvland (Praissisch Saksen)
11. Leegsaksen (Praisissch Saksen)
12. Nederpraissen (Brannenburg)
13. Lausitt (Brannenburg)
14. Mekelnburg (Mekelnburg-Vörpommern)
15. Vörpommern (Mekelnburg-Vörpommern)
16. Westpommern
17. Lebusland
18. Posen
19. Leegpommern-Kujavien
20. Westommerellen (Pommern)
21. Oostpommerellen-Culmerland (Pommern)
22. Ermland-Masuren (Oostpraissen)
23. Nadrauen-Natangen (Oostpraissen)
24. Memelland (Oostpraissen)
25. Saarland
26. Pfalz (Rheinland-Pfalz)
27. Moselland (Rheinland-Pfalz)
28. Rheinland (Rheinland-Pfalz)
29. Nassau (Hessen)
30. Kurhessen (Hessen)
31. Erfurt (Thüringen)
32. Weimarland (Thüringen)
33. Ostsachsen (Deutsch Sachsen)
34. Lausitz-Vorschlesien (Deutsch Sachsen)
35. Niederschlesien
36. Ostrowien
37. Mittelschlesien
38. Oberschlesien
Since I do not speak Prussian, I tried to make the names for the regions and cities as realistic as possible, but please correct me if I made any mistakes. If you have any questions, I'd love to answer them.
I like to hear what you think.
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Comments: 40
They are Low German instead of High German.
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Of course, should've figured as much!
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Will you ever make a map of Europe with all of your in-universe creations in it?
Also, I know there are differences, but what are the differences between Prussian and German?
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Yes, eventually I will make maps of all the countries of Europe. The maps are on the same scale, so you can stick them together (the borders fit like pieces of a puzzle ^^) and you will get a detailed map of all of Europe. ^^
Well, to start with, Prussian is actually an extinct Baltic language (similar to Latvian and Lithuanian), but the Prussian language that I am talking about is actually Low German, but since that might cause confusion with (High) German, I renamed Low German into Prussian after the only real Low German-speaking state that ever existed: Prussia, which actually got its name from the ancient Baltic Prussians. So far the history. ^^
The differences between Prussian and German is actually that Prussian is a completely different language. Germanic languages can be split into three branches:
-North Germanic (the group to which current Danish, Scanian, Swedish, Gotlandish, Norwegian (Nynorsk and Bokmal), Elfdalian, Faroese, Icelandic languages and the extinct Greenlandic language belong)
-East Germanic (this group is completely extinct and features the Vandalic, Burgundian, Gothic (Ostrogothic and Visigothic) languages, and possibly also Crimean 'Gothic', although this may also be an extinct West Germanic language)
-West Germanic (the group to which current German, Dutch, English, Scottish, Limburgish, Frisian, Luxemburgish, Bavarian, Cimbrian (Longobardian), Swiss German (Alemannic) and Low German (Prussian) languages belong, I personally speak a dialect which is thought to be a special variant of Baltic German (the Baltic German dialects have very few speakers nowadays and are related to Low German/Prussian), but there are big differences between what I speak and the usual German and Prussian dialects, so one might as well add this as a separate language, although there are various moribund German and Low German/Prussian languages islands all over Eastern Europe, so if each dialect were to become a language of its own this would make the list of West Germanic languages really long, so let's not take these into account)
Within the west Germanic languages there are also two branches: northern dialects and southern dialects. To the southern dialects belong the Standard German language, as well as Luxembourgish, Bavarian, Swiss German and, the southernmost variant, Cimbrian, spoken in northern Italy. To the northern dialects belong the Dutch, English, Scottish, Frisian and Low German/Prussian languages. Limburgish is thought to be somewhere in between the southern branch and the northern branch. Now as you can see, standard German and Low German/Prussian are, even though related and both West Germanic languages, two completely different languages. Low German/Prussian is much more similar to English and Dutch, whilst Standard German, the German you get in school is much different from English. The misunderstanding that Dutch is a dialect of Standard German is due to the fact that Low German/Prussian and Dutch are very much alike, and could possibly be considered dialects of one another, whilst there is a big difference between Dutch and Standard German. Listen for yourself:
This is Standard Dutch: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyPpcT…
Compared to Low German: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dfMia…
Whilst this is Standard German: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdQCCT…
You can hear that Low German is much more similar to Dutch than Standard German, right?
An important difference between Dutch and Low German and Standard German is that Low German and Standard German both use the accented vowels -ü, -ä and -ö, whilst Dutch only uses the accented vowels -ï and -ë. Also standard German uses the -ß for a double -s, whilst this letter is not present in Dutch. In Low German this letter is present but in lesser amounts than in Standard German.
These are a few of the differences between Standard German and Low German/Prussian, but of course there are many more, since both are separate languages.
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Es ist mit Österreich in das Österreichisches-Bayernisches Reich: athicer.deviantart.com/art/Oes…
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This looks quite nice, lovely even! Though I have three minor nitpicks:
#1: As konstantinpalailogos said, Sorbian uses the Latin alphabet IOTL and it just looks distracting to see it in Cyrillic. But if you have a VERY good justification for it, I'd love to hear it.
#2: Historically the area around Cologne/Köln/Keulen has been part of the North Rhenish dialect and thus is more closely related to the dialects spoken in todays Rhineland-Palatinate. So I'd recommend changing the map to reflect that, since you are going for a linguistic division between provinces and regions.
#3: I love the fact that my hometown of Iserlohn is visible on the map, but in the Westphalian dialect it is Iserlauhn and I can't imagine it dropping the "h" since it is derived from the words "Iser" meaning iron and "Lohen" meaning forest. So a tiny spelling change should suffice.
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Lohen soll Wald bedeuten echt? Dachte Lohe ist das altdeutsche Wort für Flamme^^
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Danke schön! ^^ Ich würde mit dich Deutsch reden, aber weil ich völlig klar sein will, wird ich mal zu Englisch umschalten.
Ok here we go:
1. You are right, but here is what I wrote to Konstantinpalailogos: "I am aware of that, however, here Sorbian was forced to adopt the Cyrillic script (as was every other Slavic language) due to an agreement between the Germanics and the Russians that the Germanics would get great control over Slavic countries, but that the Russians would also retain some influence, which included the cyrillification of every Slavic language, to which the Germanics gladly agreed, since this clearly marks them as non-Germanic." Does this explanation satisfy? ^^
2. You are right once again, however, in this scenario, since Keulen/Köln is a major city (and an important region), and the same goes for the area around it, such as Bonn, there are a lot of Prussians which have emigrated there since the "gründung" of the Prussian state, so the region is now predominantly Prussian. Government campaigns have also caused the number of Deutch in that region to shrink, whilst they were motivated to move to Silesia and Ostrowien, to compensate for the large amount of Poles and Polabians there.
3. I did not know that, however, my resource was the Neddersassische Wikipedia, which said it should be spelled like that: nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iserlau… . Also, I am hoping to express the names in the standardvariant of Prussian (which I believe, has not been made yet), rather than naming the cities in the names they have from specific dialects spoken there. This is also why Meideborg is "Maagdeburg" on this map.
I hope this answers your questions/"nitpicks" (
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Cool! Are you of German descent actually?
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Partly. I'm from modern day Silesia. At home we speak the Silesian dialect which is part Polish, part German.
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Wow, that is really interesting! 
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No, Beilschmidt is not my real surname.
Silesian is a Polish dialect with a lot of German and Czech pronouncation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian…
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But one of your parents or grandparents or so is German? Funny how you as a Pole like Germany so much, I thought that was rather uncommon in Poland...
Ah, thank you. You have actually given me the idea of making a Silesian state. If I am going to make a map of it I might ask you for help if you don't mind... ^^
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I don't think there is nothing wrong with liking Germany as about half of my family were Austrian and German. I think it's more common to have a dislike to Russians.
My knowledge on Silesia is limited because I don't live in Silesia, or even Poland, anymore.
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Well, then we share that, a like of Germany and a dislike of Russia. ^^ And we also share that we are both of a German (well, let's call it Germanic in my case 
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That interesting... Why did you move to Scotland tho?
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My parents dragged me there 9 years ago when they were looking for a job.
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And do you want to go back and live in Poland once, or do you want to stay in Scotland?
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I know I don't want to live in Scotland any longer. I think I want to move Germany or Austria or go back to Poland. I'm not sure yet
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Germany and Austria sound nice, or maybe Netherlands or Sweden?
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I can't speak Swedish or Dutch.
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Hmmjah then I think Germany or Austria is better yes. Or maybe Luxemburg or Switzerland? ^^
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Interesting idea and I really like the multilingualism element to it, as well as the standardized, Low German "Prussian".
Three questions/comments though:
1. Why Dutch for the de jure language, and not Low German?
2. Is 'Praissen' supposed to be High German?
3. Sorbian does not use the Cyrillic alphabet, they use a Latin alphabet similar to Czech (unless you were going for an ATL cultural influence on Sorbian).
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I just saw you were right concerning the Dutch/Hollandish being the lingua franca, as you didn't confuse Deutch for Dutch, which I thought at first, but I accidentally said Hollandish was the lingua franca. But that error is now corrected.
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Ahhhh okay, makes sense now
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Thank you! ^^
Ok I will explain.
1. It might be a little confusing, but Dutch is not an official language anywhere in Prussia, however Deutch is. Deutch is the new (ATL) name for OTL High German (Deutsch in High German), whilst Prussian is the ATL name for OTL Low German, and Hollandish is the ATL name for standard OTL Dutch. Deutch, or High German, is the linga franca for all the big 5 continental Centralgermanic nations (Netherlands, Prussia, Allemania, Lombardy and the Austro-Bavarian Empire), so therefore it is also the lingua franca for most people within these countries. For instance Sorbians and Prussians often converse in Deutch, but Hollandish and Picardians also do so, even though they also converse in the national lingui franca.
2. No, Praissen is supposed to be Low German, Prussian, but a standardised form, so it may deviate slightly from some dialects. I know there are multiple names for Prussia in different Low German dialects, but I chose the one that sounded best to me for the Standard Prussian name. Prussia in High German is Preußen. Standard Prussian also uses the -ß, but to a lesser extent, which is why "Praissen" is written with double -s. Also the consonant shift (or how do you call that when it applies to a vowel?) -eu to -ai can be seen every now and then from High German to Low German (or even better, the other way around, because High German likely descends from the latter, rather than the other way around).
3. I am aware of that, however, here Sorbian was forced to adopt the Cyrillic script (as was every other Slavic language) due to an agreement between the Germanics and the Russians that the Germanics would get great control over Slavic countries, but that the Russians would also retain some influence, which included the cyrillification of every Slavic language, to which the Germanics gladly agreed, since this clearly marks them as non-Germanic.
I hope I've answered your questions, but if you have any more, I'll gladly answer them. ^^
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Answers a lot, thanks, but the only tick I have is the High German/Low German spellings.
Standard German (which is High German overlaid with Low German vocabulary) uses "Deutsch" and "Preußen", and while Standard German isn't technically one dialect the pronunciation usually follows that of central Germany, so the -eu is pronounced like English -oi.
In the south, High German (the dialect I use) raises the -eu to an -ei (pronounced like English -ai), so the traditional southerners say "Breissen" and "Deitsch".
Low German lowers the vowels to an -u or -ü, so in Low German its "Preußen" (prussen) and "Düütch" and in Dutch "Pruisen" and "Duits". This is actually where our word "Dutch" comes from (it's the native English form of "Deutsch").
Also, with High German and Low German, it's not that one came from the other really, more that they developed side-by-side from the same source.
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Well, you are obviously way better educated on this subject than I am, I was expressing my thoughts, but you learned me something new. 
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Huh; strange that they would use that, maybe they were imitating the High German name. At any rate, thanks for putting up with me, and again, very nice job on the map and the background for it, very detailed work.
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No problem, and thank you again!
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Thank you very much, that was what I was going for!
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Sure thing. I wish I had the same patience.
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Well, I must admit this takes a long time to complete. But it is for a greater good. ^^
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